When it comes to building your business, employees are the centerpiece of success. As an entrepreneur (especially if you’ve recently taken that leap of faith) you simply cannot do it on your own. You need a skilled team. One that will free you up from wearing a million different hats and can give you the support to finally focus on scaling your business.
The question then becomes, how do you hire employees that can take you from where you are to where you need to go?
Today, I’m talking with Christine and Eric Gilo, Founders of Mogel. As a global leader in Recruitment Process Outsourcing (RPO), Mogel helps companies around the world to find, hire, and train people who hold a shared sense of purpose for the work they do.
In this podcast interview, you’ll learn:
Andrew: Hi. This is your host, Andrew Rafal, the founder and CEO of Bayntree Wealth Advisors and I wanted to personally welcome you to Your Wealth & Beyond, a podcast that will empower you, the entrepreneur and business owner, with the insight and information you need to effectively manage and control your personal and professional finances. My goal is to help each of you get your fiscal house in order so that you can take your business to the next level. We’re going to be looking at things through a financial lens. I’m going to help you focus on growing your business, building your wealth and most importantly finding purpose in what matters most.
Andrew: Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Your Wealth & Beyond. I am your host Andrew Rafal, the founder and CEO of Bayntree Wealth Advisors and today I have special guests that I’m very excited about. They’re not only actual full disclosure clients of Bayntree but they’ve become friends over the time that we’ve known each other. And today we have Eric and Christine Gilo, the founder and CEO and Managing Principal of Scottsdale-based Mogel Recruitment Firm, Mogel RPO. And welcome, Eric and Christine. How are you guys doing this fine morning?
Christine: Good morning, Andrew. We’re doing well. Thank you for having us this morning.
Eric: Yeah. It’s an honor. We just got off a flight, true life of an entrepreneur, after working 17 hours and an honor to be invited to speak with you here.
Andrew: That is dedication, and hopefully, you guys got your coffee so we could keep the energy going. Where did you guys come from? What part of the country or the world were you flying in from?
Christine: Actually, we were in San Diego for a quick day trip to conduct a site tour and meet with some senior executives for one of our new clients headquartered in San Diego and actually as well as Tennessee.
Andrew: Excellent. Well, so today’s going to be a great episode for you guys, you listeners out there. As you know, Your Wealth & Beyond is about empowering you, the business owner, the entrepreneur, to build your business, build your wealth but also find purpose. And what’s interesting about Eric and Christine is that not only are they business owners and they’ve got a great back story of coming from the corporate world and then together as husband and wife building a practice based on what they know but they’re also in the field of helping businesses like you and business owners finding the right employees, finding the right culture. And today we’re going to dig in on what successes and failures they’ve had in building their business but also, I think what will be great is trying to fully understand where a recruitment firm, where they can come in, how they can help you find the right employees, take off maybe one of those hats that we all wear here as we wear a lot of hats as entrepreneur. So, today’s going to be great. And then we’ll have at the end of the show a way to contact both Eric and Christine and the team if you have questions, and we’ll probably have a couple deliverables that we’ll be able to get out as well. So, before we jump in and talk about why recruiting is so important as you build a business, Eric and Christine, will you give us a little background on where you came from in regard to the corporate world and how you ended up starting Mogel and so forth?
Eric: So, 20 years’ experience within the recruitment industry, here my roots, originally a local surfer boy from Hawaii, educated in Toronto, Canada as well as through my other grad, grad of Hawaii. Yeah. Worked for 20 years, Fortune 500 recruiting firms, was a number one producer as an individual and as a manager. I’ve spent my life aligned to my passion which is people as well as assisting businesses and in helping in their recruitment process. That’s I guess a quick intro on me.
Andrew: And Christine?
Christine: Thank you. Yeah. So, quick intro on myself. I like to believe that I was born to be an entrepreneur. My passion is people and my humble beginnings come from growing up in a very rural area in Northern California on a cattle ranch. So, I have the experience of watching not only my grandparents be a husband-and-wife entrepreneurial team but then my mother also followed in her mother’s footsteps and married an entrepreneur and also became a husband-and-wife entrepreneurial team. So, it’s really in my blood to be a business owner. And after about 20 years in corporate America, I decided it was time to go out on my own. And as luck would have it, the universe aligned Eric and I both professionally and personally and we were able to found our own company which is Mogel.
Andrew: And how many years ago was that that you guys decided to get out of that corporate world and take your passion for helping businesses and becoming that entrepreneur that you’ve always dreamed of and starting the Mogel?
Christine: Yeah. So, we officially started Mogel in May of 2013 and for about 12 months prior to that, we operated a recruiting and staffing firm by the name of RELL Group and we’ll get to how Mogel came to be from RELL Group but that was our original company and then we rebranded and remarketed and became Mogel just over four years ago.
Andrew: Wonderful. When we look to that four or five years ago when you guys decided to make that leap of faith and I think some of the listeners out there may be in the corporate world or an executive and they may have these thoughts and visions of, “Hey, I could do it better,” but that leap of faith especially when you’ve got your bills to pay, you make in the corporate world with your experience, I’m sure very good income, you had good benefits. So, when you look to that and with the family with the young kids, I mean, do you think having the two of you together with the same dream and the same passion, did that make it a little bit easier than if it was, Eric, you go in on your own or, Christine, you trying to start this as your own entrepreneur? Was that something that really helped you guys make that change?
Eric: You know, I have a few thoughts in relation to what you just said, Andrew. You’re 100% right. If you read the statistics, you go on to Google, you talk to most entrepreneurs and it just when you look at the stat, it doesn’t make sense that you want to do it. So, I have a lot and when I say about I have a passion for people, I have a lot of respect for other business owners and entrepreneurs and what they do because it really is when you look at the risk and warrant and I’m sure we’ll get tests, successes and failures in general, that fear component is a real emotional component that most entrepreneurs go through. On a personal note, I left a position where I was doing extremely well, maybe quadruple times the highest tax bracket, to pursue this dream of helping people and providing a solution to a bigger problem. And I think not to get a completely different tangent, I think a tip of advice I give other entrepreneurs is before they do take that leap, what solution are they providing to a big problem? So, those are, I guess, my two points and I’ll hand it off to Christine.
Christine: Thank you, Eric. I think going back to your original question, Andrew, when people first think about starting their own business or going into this for themselves or being an entrepreneur, in hindsight you don’t know what you don’t know. And like Eric said, we’ll get to the successes and failures as a company and as a married entrepreneurial couple, but I think for us there was no option. Failure was never an option for us. We were a newly blended family in addition to being new business owners, so we just had no choice but to forge ahead. And I think there’s a reason that a very small percentage of businesses make it through what years one, two, three and four and it certainly has taught us more about ourselves and about people in general than we ever imagined. We often joke that we got an MBA in business in the first 12 months of starting our own company, but we wouldn’t do it any other way.
Andrew: And so, I think the takeaway there is you guys looked at what these as you work in the corporate world and seen in your environment of what worked, what didn’t work that you had this vision and that you could do it better and beyond doing it better than being able to provide that opportunity, and I think all entrepreneurs, you can’t do it on your own. So, being able to provide that opportunity to not just help your clients but as you grow your business and be able to continue bringing on more employees and giving them the opportunity I think is what we all look at. And I think the DNA inside of all entrepreneurs and business owners is a little bit different than most out there and I know for you guys even though like Eric you’re making very successful in that corporate world and the income was there, most likely it was just there was something missing and that’s, now, a lot of people just I think stay in that world and then maybe will regret when they’re 60 years old as, “Hey, I should’ve done this.” So, I think it’s commendable to leave successful employment and all the things that you guys did and at the timing of newly together with the family, that’s a testament to you guys. So, that’s passion. That’s what we do.
So, the one question I had so you’re looking at, you started the company. It was RELL Group and then you decided to rebrand. So, as businesses, we look at the company name is something we all think about and lose sleep over and what’s the name going to be because that kind of directs the strength of the company. So, walk us through and walk the listeners through with how you came up with Mogel and what did that look like to rebrand the former name into the new names?
Christine: Sure. So, this is one of my favorite stories. I think it’s a good metaphor for business. So, as I mentioned, the company name was RELL Group and one day in conversation, we were having a discussion about, an actual husband and wife discussion about the company name and I was a little bit reluctant to share with Eric that the name did not resonate with me. It was a name that he had chosen many, many years before even knowing me, so it didn’t sit with me as something that was true to who we are. And so he, of course, said, “Well, then let’s change the name,” and I thought, “Wow. Okay. That’s great.” And now what will the name be, right, probably the very first thing that comes to a person’s mind when they think about having their own business or their own company. And many people in our industry choose their last name or they choose their initials, or they choose something that sort of speaks to who they are because generally they’re known in their industry so it makes sense. But we wanted to do something a little bit different. So, we started talking to people and saying, “What do you think of this? What do you think of that? We’re trying to come up with a unique name.” And one of our employees actually suggested that we choose something that really is a blend of us and part of Eric, part of myself and something that would make sense as us coming together in this business. And a large part of Eric’s background was servicing clients in the financial services arena and at that time heavily in the mortgage sector. And so, being that he had that kind of mortgage financial services background and I had a very strong legal background, that’s how I built my business here in the Phoenix market, we sort of came up with mortgage and legal. And as we were talking about it, our employees said, “Hey, what about Mogel? Half mortgage, legal? We can turn it around,” and it just instantly resonated with us. And so, that’s where the name of the company came from.
Andrew: I love it. That’s great. And when you take a name that really didn’t exist, and you build a whole company around it, it’s similar to how I came up with the name of my firm, Bayntree Wealth Advisors. Like Mogel, Bayntree isn’t a well-known word and in fact, for me trying to figure out how to come up with a name and similar to your industry, a lot in our industry is, hey, you use the last name and to very centric to the founder and I didn’t want that. I think like you guys you want to build something that maybe can outlive, not outlive you but outlive you in the sense of doing the day-to-day operations. And so, I looked at it and said, “Well, what would resonate?” And building a name that’s not recognizable with something that I thought was pretty neat to be able to build a brand around that? You think like Nike, right? Nike is commonplace now, but you think back to the 70s, what the heck was that? So, for me, I look and said, “Well what would resonate?” And the street that I grew up on was Bayntree. And so, for me, it had those ties to my roots and it had for me that passion of how I grew up and I was raised, and Bayntree Wealth Advisors and then tying in for the financial side of the tree. So, we had a lot of fun in building that brand and then coming up with a tagline of, “You dream, we plan.” So, I think that’s really cool how you guys did it and through business owners out there, try to think outside the box. RELL Group was definitely a great name but I think for you guys it has with Mogel just it’s a little bit more powerful. So, that’s awesome. And how many years were you in business prior to rebranding? And was that a big issue with clients and the website and the marketing material? Was that a pain that you felt that took a lot of time or was it something that was pretty smooth?
Eric: If I could comment on what you said earlier, I think you’re 100% right. One of the privileges we have is through years we’ve sat with hundreds of thousands of people and thousands and thousands of organizations. And one of the organizations that we’re fortunate to work with is one of the premiere branding companies. And I remember sitting with him. I said, “Give me one piece of advice here in terms of we’re going to build a company name, we’re going to create a logo,” and what he said has always resonated with me. He said, “Be authentic,” and I think when we choose names and logos that are authentic to us, it seems the market, and I don’t have any data on it, it seems to be a lot more receptive to it like your Bayntree story, moving, great, great story. And I think a lot of the times is with small business owners, when I first, I left the number one executive search firm worldwide, 350,000 employees. And so, I thought how am I going to compete? And there are some insecurities I think that happened. I am small, I am this but what I’ve learned in the market, there’s advantages and disadvantages to both and this I think is really key to just be authentic and be who you are.
So, to interject that to what you’re asking, how the transition was, there was a transition, there were some rough patches along the way, chances that entrepreneur trying to wear so many hats, trying to make constant decisions, you’re under a tremendous amount of stress traditionally initially to generate revenue but when we change over, we had those nightmare situations. We actually had the person who is redoing our website lost our content. The site was down for a while and on top of that, what else is happening, clients were getting confused about the name. And so, the rollout wasn’t smooth. It wasn’t as smooth as I’d like. My last point when we keep on talking about the whole I don’t know why that F word keeps on coming up as failures, but the real question is you’re going to have a lot of failures and that orientation is correlated to success. And there haven’t been many entrepreneurs that I’ve met – how about this. There have been zero entrepreneurs that I’ve met that don’t have a failure story. It seems to be a common bond and that’s why I’m honored to be a part of this call, Andrew, and any way we can help any other business owners out there in terms of our experience, we’re willing to do it. So, I know Christine is wanting to jump in here.
Christine: Thank you, Eric and Andrew. As we talk about and think back to what that rebranding was like for a young company and as successes and failures, we were very successful our first year and so as a new company you’re starting out, you have this instant success and you think, “Wow. This isn’t as hard as everyone suggested.” And so, then we decided that about a year in, we needed to hire a new company to revamp our website. And so, one of our core values at Mogel is to seek wise counsel. And so, we decided to interview probably about I would say 12 to 15 marketing and branding website design companies and freelancers. We ran the gamut from the most expensive in the market to, as we’re staffers and recruiters, even looking at building out our own team to do this for us internally. And so, we thought we need a very educated guess. We invested a tremendous amount of money and that process was much more tedious and painful than we anticipated. So, I think the one thing you don’t know how to manage when you’re first starting your own business is, how do I continue to drive revenue? Because generally, when you’re starting a company, you are the revenue, whatever service offering you have or product, you have to be in the trenches.
And so, to have to be in the trenches and drive revenue and then have to be a CEO or a controller or an HR manager, on any given day you really have to be everything. And then to have to make these other decisions about strategy and how you’re going to continue to scale your business, all of these things at once, we didn’t understand the time it takes as a young organization to put that time into the branding and the marketing and all of those things. You think you hire a company and they just do it for you. And then what we learned in taking that on is that we had actually taken on a whole new job. And so, this process that we thought would be short and painful because we had hired experts to actually end up also requiring us too now be branding and marketing experts. So, it was a challenge, but we were happy with the end results.
Andrew: And I think that entrepreneurs and business owners, we’re the only ones who know that pain knowing we got to wear all those hats, especially in the beginning. Your website, MogelRPO.com, which the podcast notes will be able to drive you there, but you guys have done an excellent job. I really like the way it’s clean. I love the colors. Obviously, the logo itself is very powerful. One thing also, it’s mobile-friendly which I think is very crucial in today’s world. Whatever business that you’re in, make sure that your website is mobile-friendly and that’s something that if you haven’t done that, you’re going to be dead in the water there. So, good job on the site. I know it’s always evolving but with you being in the business that you’re in, your site is so critical for it to be easy to navigate for people to find it and that’s something I think you guys did a great job and it’s a testament to you and the team that you work with there. So, with that being said, we have listeners out there that may have never used a recruiting firm. They may have heard of it. Let’s talk real quick high level, why would a business both small, medium and large, why would they work with a recruitment firm? What’s the value that you guys bring to the table and how that you can help take some things off of as now you being not the entrepreneur but providing the service to the entrepreneur and to the business owner, walk us through what that looks like on a high level and then we’ll dig a little deeper in.
Eric: You know what, there are two sides of the coin. Our clients are candidates that we put to work and then the businesses that we help proliferate. So, I think based on what side we’re coming from but in general, probably what would apply to both is we know what the street says. How about that? We really have based on our robust network and just being in the street is what I like to call it is we sort of understand the movement in the market, what may be hot, what may not be hot. So, let me give you an example. So, we represent a company and they actually they’re so far thinking they’re Amazon. They actually have positions that aren’t even in the market. And so, they’re that future thinking. So, my point that I’m trying to make here is that there may be positions that are being created and as we know that are being created in the market or that people aren’t even aware off or out there. So, part of our process, in general, is aligning and listening to the company or to the person and we’re able to consult of what we’re seeing in the market. I’m sorry. I know you asked for high level. I’m sort of bouncing between both but yeah, just to really bullet-pointed, it’s our robust network, the market intel. And then probably the third point I’d make, there’s a track record. We work with employers at helping and save cost in terms of the recruitment process because it’s a scary – and you know, we have some numbers that we dial with speed on in terms of the hiring process. But those would be three bullet points, robust network, market intel as well as just our ability to save money for employers.
Andrew: Right. And if you think about it like, for instance, as I’ve hired employees and we’ve got at this point at Bayntree I have 10 employees and a couple of them did come from a recruiting firm. And, when I looked at it, another business owner, how do I go get somebody? What are my options? And for a business owner that’s trying to like you said, Christine, handle the marketing, the books, bringing the revenue, act as human resources, it’s now we’ll throw one more thing on there and obviously, finding the right employee is the key to success in any business. You’re going to be as good as your worst employee one would say. So, you look at it and say, “Okay. I could throw out whether be on a ZipRecruiter or LinkedIn and all these different employees that have systematized it. But what do I do then? I’ve got 50 resumes and as a business owner who is not in this industry, I don’t know what to look for. That’s something that now I’m going to spend three hours of my time trying to weed through this and then what? Now I gotta call them? I’ve got to try to get them in for an interview. And that process is just not effective for people and businesses whether they’re large or small.
So, I think that value there that I found is, okay, I’m going to hire a firm, I’m going to pay money, but you guys were in the trenches. You know what we’re looking for. So, I think in that context for me and a couple of these employees had been fantastic, we’ll go in a little bit deeper as to the process, how it works and the different ways and whether it’s temp to hire or full-time and depending upon the high level of the job itself. So, Eric, back to your point then I think when you look at Mogel, you guys have two types of clients then if I’m not mistaken. You’ve got the employer that you’ve built these relationships with both here in Scottsdale but also US and worldwide but then would you say your other clients are the actual candidates. If I’m out there, I’m in the tech world, I’m trying to find a position, do I come to you and also say, “Hey, Mogel, what’s out there for me?” Is it you guys wear the two hats there, the two different types of relationships? Is that accurate?
Christine: Absolutely. Andrew, that’s 100% spot on. We really do service two different groups. We service on the candidate side, someone looking for a job or again the companies and corporation looking to hire.
Andrew: Okay. And when you look at the different types of ways that they can hire, walk me through what that looks like. Because we’ve hired a temp to hire and then they become employees and then we’ve also found employees that were headhunted and brought in as in the sense full-time. So, walk through a business owner who may have not gone down this path and what that looks like both on a process side but also on maybe the industry cost side as well.
Christine: Sure. Absolutely. So, it’s funny. One of the big things that people think off when they hear of hiring an agency or going through a recruitment firm is the cost. It’s on the forefront of every company’s mind whether they’re a new company, an entrepreneur, a startup, everybody always wants to understand and try and lower the cost of hiring. And so, the initial thought is that using an agency is cost prohibitive where actually, one of the reasons that Mogel rebranded and became a recruitment process outsourcing firm is because we listened to our clients and understood that they do have these outrageous expenses when it comes to recruiting costs. And so, we took that problem and created a solution and rebranded as a recruitment process outsourcing. And what that means is that we can do the traditional contract to hire which is what you’ve mentioned where maybe a company brings in somebody on a contract basis and then determines whether or not they’re going to be a good fit for the organization and then we’ll move to, over a course of time, hire them on as a permanent employee. That’s what we call contract to hire or temp to hire.
Then there’s the traditional direct hire recruiting model or direct hire placement and that’s where we work with the company, understand what they’re looking for both from a skill set level culture just depending on what other skills that they’re looking for. Maybe it’s a very difficult position to fill or perhaps there’s some reason that’s creating a challenge in hiring. We will come in and work with them one-on-one and to hire that individual. And then we have companies that are scaling. They need to hire 100 people in the next 90 days. That’s another way that we can come in and work with them in what we call ramp ups. We’re helping to hire large groups of people. And then there’s our recruitment process outsourcing. We will come in and look at maybe just a piece of the recruiting process. Sometimes we’re helping organizations train their sourcers and their new recruiters or we’re working with a small piece of the recruiting department and teams. So, really, it’s a customized solution based on what the clients budget is and what their true overall needs are.
Andrew: And so, in the case of a temp or contract-to-hire, again, trying to get more into the weeds here, the cost of obviously have it to pay a firm on top of that salary but the one thing and I know when we hired contract-to-hire, and correct me if I’m wrong, but that employee was actually being paid from the recruiting firm, the agency and that way we didn’t have to pay some of the benefits as well as potentially in some cases the Social Security tax, etcetera. So, I remember we were paying the actual firm and then they were paying the actual employee. Is that a pretty accurate assessment in most cases of how that contract-to-hire works in the beginning stages of trying to get to know that person and that employee if they’re going to be a fit?
Christine: Yep, 100%. And as you experienced, yours was a very successful hire and worked out wonderfully. One of the benefits to hiring in this format is also let’s say the person doesn’t work out. A lot of times potential employees or employees can really perform in the first 30 days or 60 days and then around kind of that 60 to 90 days you start to see their true colors and perhaps they’re not going to be the right fit for the organization. In a situation like that, we’d be speaking to the client. We would know on the front end that this probably wasn’t going to be the right fit. At that point, we would go through the process of replacing that individual and then working to put the right person in that role. Meanwhile, it’s a seamless transition. You as the client don’t have to go through the process of terminating someone who didn’t work out, absorbing those unemployment costs when that individual files an unemployment claim. You don’t have to have those difficult conversations. You can pick up the phone and call Mogel and say, “Unfortunately, this person is not working out for us. We’d like to have them replaced by tomorrow,” or maybe it’s, “We’d like to have them replaced in a week.” Whatever it is, we will be able to navigate that situation seamlessly without any discomfort to you as the client.
Andrew: That’s great. That really was a turnkey process for us here which was great. And I think also on the contract to hire, a lot of business owners or a lot of businesses are seasonal where they have to maybe ramp up in certain times of the year and then it’s only going to be for that specific maybe 90 days that they need those people. So, that’s where somebody like you could come in, help them scale for that timeframe but knowing then after that season’s over, boom, we go back to the current employees, and so they can focus on their business. You’ve helped them do that and I think with that too you’re building and nurturing the relationship, so you can learn more and more about that business. And then you may come to them and say, “Hey, you’re not looking but I’ve got somebody for you that you’ve got to have,” and that’s only by you knowing their business and leveraging that relationship. And I’m sure you guys have done that in the past with some of the businesses that you’ve worked with who wasn’t even looking for somebody.
Christine: Yep, 100%. In fact, you triggered a thought in my head, Andrew, that contract-to-hire, that temporary employee or now in the millennial world they like to call them, it’s the gig economy. It’s a great option for an entrepreneur or a startup because so many times you really don’t know if you need to hire an individual on a permanent basis. When you’re first starting out for six months you may be really in the flow and need some additional help but then perhaps your business slows down a little bit. You can easily transition that person out without any detriment to the company. So, you’re spot on there.
Andrew: And so, when you start working with – I’m sorry. Go on.
Eric: No. Just what I’d like to add is we keep on talking about the employer side which is key but it’s also an opportunity for top-tier candidates to sort of try before they buy also into the relationship. So, that’s a key component that needs to be mentioned. And we also talked about hiring candidates where there may not be an opening and that is a real prime spot for employers they want to be in. They want to be an employer of choice. So, we’ll have some clients that we build relationships, of candidates we build relationships up and we’ll call them. For example, I had an advisor two weeks ago who said, “Eric, I’m ready to make a move. Liz bought our house and I’d like to align with a small organization.” Obviously, one of the first places that come to mind is Bayntree based on our relationship, our experience with you. And knowing the candidate and seeing if that we feel that it will a match, not only your core values as a company but you as a leader, it is ideal. I’ve worked with several companies that will tell us and CEOs are always telling us, “Hey, I may not have an opening right now. These are my projections, but I wanted – if you ever see somebody with this skill set, I want to talk to them and meet them.”
And think about the value of that. Let’s say you’re not even just hiring. A lot of our businesses is on a contingent basis but for example, if even though you’re going to be expanding your marketing partner, maybe you want to meet some of the top marketers within the value to get perspective as a business owner at no cost. So, those are the two points that I want to drive home is one is the candidate. It’s a great opportunity for the candidate to experience the culture, but on the flip side, you’re 100% right. You want to run such a fine-tuned machine in the community that people, you become an employer of choice from a recruitment standpoint.
Andrew: I think that’s fantastic advice there. And what I’ve learned as I continue to try to grow as a business owner and learn from other owners is a lot of times businesses are slow to hire. You always want to look at as you have growth in mind is you may want to bring people on board prior to actually meeting them because there’s nothing worse than waiting that six months and then you realize we’re overloaded here dependent upon what business you’re in. Especially for us, the financial services space, it’s all about client servicing. It’s client-centric and if I’m building and bringing on clients and we’re not servicing, we’re not providing that value. And all of a sudden no matter who I bring on, if I’m losing clients now because I wasn’t able to perform and do what we said we’re going to do, that’s not going to help us at all. So, one of the things and especially in our industry in the financial services is we want to look to hire even before we may be needed, because it takes time to train people. It takes time to make sure that they’re the right fit.
So, with the business owner, don’t be pennywise and not spend that money. You want to look out at growing the business. Each and every one of those employees are an investment and business owners out there whether it be Eric and Christine or whatever firm that you do know, I think it’s imperative that you start those relationships with people that have the networks, can open the doors up. And maybe it’s not the right fit right now but at some point, you’re going to need to grow or you’re going to have some challenges and you may need to fire some people and that’s where having a consultative type of relationship, you guys have been down that path, you can direct the business owner on what to do. Because right now with the legal side of things is a lot of entrepreneurs don’t really understand not only how they hire somebody but how do you get rid of somebody as well and that’s where having that relationship with a firm and an agency like yours, I think, is critical for the success of the business from short-term as well as the long-term growth of each and every company as they’re trying to project out where they want to be.
Eric: Yeah. And I think that’s why you probably run a great organization. I notice that it’s a hard game as an owner for all of us to predict our hiring needs in the future but one of the biggest advantages I believe of aligning with a good recruitment firm, to really know the details of your business. You’re going to have to know your competition and what’s out there and that’s what we can offer obviously without breaking any type of ethical boundaries. But if you’re able, candidates out there even the top of any industry, they want to meet other employers. They want to know what’s in market for the top 1% that I represent. So, it’s not a lot of times. It’s not, “Hey, I’m going to come and work for you, Andrew.” It’s, “Hey, let me just network and see what else is out there,” and the reason is the interest of being proactive as a candidate, as in as an employer for when you should know who your next hire is today in my opinion. A candidate should know also if the wheels were to fall off the bus, who they want to go and work for and where would they want to go and work? Knowing where they’re going to know that, if it’s part of their career and it’s in the DNA of what they’re currently doing but I think there’s always a shocking fact to employers is that the top 1% of the market, they enjoy networking and getting out there and meeting people because they know it’s a major component of their business.
Andrew: And with you guys having the history and the relationships and understanding and working with all these different businesses both with Mogel and in your prior corporate world, when we look at why an employee would want to choose a company and a company building the right culture and making sure that they’re providing that purpose especially these millennials that want to work for something and have a passion for something that has a higher purpose. So, what are you seeing out there in what makes one business better in building that culture than another? And give some guidance as to where you see things evolving to and how us as business owners can create that culture, nurture it and ensure that you bring in the right people and don’t lose those people.
Christine: Yeah. Well, Andrew, I think that’s the big question, right? Everyone wants to know how do we attract and keep this great talent, working with millennials and working with the companies that we represent. One of the great things about it is we get to see what works and we’ve been very fortunate to work with some great organizations that have done some unique things. For example, we were lucky enough to work with Zenefits when they first arrived here in the Phoenix market and helped them with their initial ramp up. And one of the things that we took away from them was an unlimited PTO policy because we understand that in order to attract and hire and retain this great talent, we need to be competitive in the market. So, that was something that we look at as an organization and said, “Hey, if we hire great people, they’re doing what they’re hired to do, let’s give them an unlimited PTO policy,” and with that, we increased our own productivity and actually have to almost force our employees to take the time off that they deserve and need. So, that was just one way that we can take a best practice that was working for one of our clients and apply it to what we’re seeing. And as we go in as consultants to our clients, we are able to talk about what companies out in Silicon Valley are doing, what companies globally are doing, to attract and retain this talent.
Eric: There are two pieces here, right, and talk about a culture and you, you’re talking about the millennials in general. And I think we almost need to take a zoom out for a moment and with culture is you really have to, as an owner, take an honest look at the organization. We have so many startups that will come to us and they’ll say, “Hey, I want the top 1% of the market. I want that supermodel of a wife,” type of thought process. And the question I’d like to throw back at them is, “Okay. You want the top 1%. As an employer, do you offer the top 1% of what the market has to offer?” And when you’re a startup, it doesn’t happen. You’re not able to compete with the time and people have the majority of the market share but going back to what you said initially, and I think you’re spot on, be authentic to who you are. As an owner, one of the key things you should really be able to do is be able to deliver the message of why somebody should come and work for you. And that’s a real – it sounds like a simple, but we can answer, “Oh PTO, comp,” whatever it is but it needs to be at a deeper level and why discover this? In working with a lot of these companies that get, gosh, hundreds of millions of dollars in funding. What I’ve noticed, the ones that are successful versus the ones that aren’t are the companies that aren’t in general, they try to assert their core values on people if that makes sense versus finding people that it’s already intrinsic and it’s part of their DNA of who they are. I’ve been working with Zappos, one of the prerequisites is to be a little bit weird. So, that’s not who you are, right, in terms of their culture. Then you may not be a match there.
So, my thought process in forming a great culture is know who you are as a company, be able to communicate those core values as a leader, as an owner to be very key and finding people that share those core values innately versus you trying to assert them. Regarding your millennial piece, I’ve seen as pretty – we’re in an instant time, right? You have all these traditionalists to the baby boomers to millennials to now the digital natives born after 1997. I look at millennials pretty simple and we’ve talked about this in your office, Andrew. We both employ a lot of millennials and we’ve had a real favorable experience. I relate it very much to the baby boomers. They like to share responsibility. They like to advance quickly, and they want to work for an ethical organization with a higher purpose. So, if you can feed those three components, it’s been a winning formula for us. A lot of the companies that do major corporations from the startups that we keep on talking about that need to hire 100 or 200 millennials at a time, those are the components that they’re really feeding on is there’s always an ability to advance them quickly if they are top performers. They want more responsibility. They want to learn and feed their intellectual curiosity. And third, if you can really tune into that why, the higher purpose of why they’re there, they seem to really eat that up and enjoy the environment. Like Christine said, I think we’re having to kick the millennials out because they just enjoy the culture that we’ve created but it’s been a work in progress. I think the last piece that we have to be very direct with in terms of forming culture, you better be good at what you do. The product or service, at the end of the day we’re all in the service business. You have to be able to execute and deliver because without that, the culture and the millennials, they just see through it and don’t want to be part of it, that everyone wants to be a part of a winning team to emerge through.
Andrew: One of the things that we’ve instilled is every quarter trying to do something where we get back to the local community and what I do is I put it on the team and again like you said, I have several millennials and what we want to find from them is, “Hey, let’s figure out what’s out there, what we can do,” and it brings that camaraderie together with the team. It helps us find the passion, get back this next, I think it’s next week we’re doing. This was the second time we’ve done it but it’s a Feed My Starving Children and it’s a global institution but ultimately, we’re going to go to a venue in Mesa and the team itself is going to have its own station. And basically, it’s a contest against other teams and a lot of times it’s corporate teams that are there. And putting together food components. They’re going to be sent out to Third World countries where food is very limited and ultimately, it’s been a great way for us to feel a part of something higher. The other thing that we’ve done is rotating every Friday, one of the staff gets to leave at 1 o’clock and we close down the office for the rest of the team at 3 o’clock which I think definitely in our industry helps to have somebody go into the weekend and recharge and our industry in the financial services, a lot of the companies we’re dealing with are back east. So, that’s been really good. We also try to do team lunches a couple of times a year, do an outing outside of the office, team building. Maybe it’s not tied into giving back but it’s something like, we haven’t done this yet, but you guys have probably heard of what’s happening here in Scottsdale, those basically the rooms where you go into and you try to get out of it, not a panic room but the puzzle room and so forth. So, we’re excited about there and just trying to have them feel part of something. I mean, it’s amazing.
I’ve got these millennials that are a core part of the team and they get in here sometimes earlier than me and stay later and I know you hear the horror story. They don’t want to work, they don’t want to work. But if you got it, just find the right ones, they’re out there and there’s over 80 million of them. So, if you don’t figure out how to attract the right millennials, I don’t care how good your company is doing today, you’re going to see in the next 5, 10, 15 years a consistent slide in growth and you’re just not going to be able to keep up with the evolution and have the pulse of what’s out there. If we could take away one thing in that recruiting process for the millennials is figure out how to get your culture set up to build and bring in the right people and attract them. And that’s where somebody like Mogel can come in and instruct the business that maybe hasn’t had that success or hasn’t known what to do there and consult with them and say, you should change this. What you’re doing here is wrong because we don’t know what you don’t know and that’s where the professionals can come in and really help you and lead you and make sure that you have the right employees moving forward.
Eric: Yeah. We just got back from San Diego and they’ve not – it was financial services company with their culture was suffering and the CEO, he woke up one day and said, “Hey, I’m going to sit with the key players that I want on a lifeboat and ask them what they want to do.” And so, literally, people that were in operations wanted to be in marketing. People that were in marketing, they want to be in recruiting. And so, if you make some few changes and he’s actually – the measurable ROI for him based on I think what we’re talking here which is obviously our timeline is putting action to work. And so, going back to the millennials I know we’re throwing all these best practices out, but you need to figure out, look at your own chess board and figure out what works well for you. Like when we first started if we told everybody with those employees who first started with, “Hey, you have unlimited PTO,” we probably have an empty office every other day. So, you really have to be authentic to who you are as a company and I can guarantee you based on 20 years and dedicated our life to this that it will solve a major piece of your puzzle if you can look internally and make those calibration.
Christine: If I can just interject here, real quick, I think to Eric’s point, hiring the right people is the number one thing and knowing what your culture is. For example, when I interview people internally, I speak to their passion. I always ask them what is your true passion. I feel very fortunate that I’m able to execute in something that I’m passionate about daily, but I don’t expect that everyone I hire is going to be as passionate about recruiting and staffing and the recruitment process outsourcing industry as Eric and I. So, our philosophy here is if we can provide you an opportunity to support yourselves, support your family and still have time and energy in your day to do what you’re passionate about outside of work, to me that’s a true success. And so that’s how we have created our culture. I always want to know what a person is passionate about in their day-to-day life and that helps to formulate a true culture. And I think it also helps to make the right hire. Going back to kind of some of your initial questions, Andrew, the cost of a bad hire for any organization is substantial. Of course, it will vary but the cost of a bad hire could probably put a new business out of business. And so, I think probably one of the best tips that I got when I first entered the recruiting industry is that the majority of people are not experts in hiring. And so, they will try and hire themselves. Well, as a new business owner or someone hiring without a lot of hiring experience, if you’re hiring yourself, you’re not going to add a lot of additional value to your business.
And so, even as hiring professionals, we had to calibrate and learn what is a successful employee for Mogel and really look internally and look at what makes somebody successful within our own company and then look to hire within those parameters. So, even as experts in the industry, we still made our own mistakes. And one other thing that I’ll mention with that, Andrew, and how we look to you and got acquainted with you, one of the things that really resonated about you and Bayntree was to look for a partner that could really give a solid business advice. So many people think that financial planners, “Oh I need a financial planner for my retirement,” but one of the things that really resonated about you and your service and the people that work there is with you, we have an acting CEO. We have a trusted advisor that we can go to for advice and knowledge in areas where we’re not experts and I think as business owners and entrepreneurs going back to our core values and that seeking wise counsel, we appreciate that in your service offering and I think that as a network and as a community of business owners, that’s what we need to look to and rely on are those relationships and going to the experts in getting that advice.
Andrew: I do appreciate that and that’s where we love on our end working with business owners especially with me knowing what I’m doing with my planning both personally and businesswise and that’s where we strive. And whoever you’re working with out there, make sure that you have that relationship where it’s a firm that’s looking out for your best interest that they’re not trying to sell you something in that regard. Whatever field it is, whatever trusted advisor it is but make sure that you got that trusted team of financial advisors, CPAs, estate planning attorneys. And in subsequent episodes, we’ll go through in much more detail how to get your fiscal house in order and business house in order. But back to your earlier point, I’m a testament to the success that we’ve had with finding the right people and when I had the wrong people looking at my day-to-day was just much more stressful. My revenue was down and now that we’ve got the right people and providing that opportunity that not only give more opportunity for my staff for them to grow but that allows us to help more people in the scope of how we’re helping both you Christine and Eric in building both your personal and your business wealth and being there for you.
So, one last, as we wind down here, I wanted to get a little bit on a personal note because I know some business owners like you are family whether it be brother or sister or in a lot of cases husband and wife. And as we finish up here, just kind of give some advice, the dynamic of working together and being together and how you guys have gotten through that in both the pros and cons of it, offer some advice for those business owners that are trying to grapple with that and some of the things that you guys have dealt with.
Christine: Well, it’s not always easy being a husband-and-wife partnership in business. While some people advised heavily against it, we believe that it has strengthened not only our business but our marriage and our family. It truly is, it’s our life. And so, there are challenges. I guess probably the best advice I would give to a family, couple entrepreneurs or married is to fight fair and oftentimes you hear about partnerships breaking up or having challenges. We’ve met with a lot of people who over the course of time, we hear about the dissolution of businesses and oftentimes you hear that it’s kind of those initial founders wanting to go in different directions or having different ideas or maybe somebody needs to be bought out because they’ve got different things going on in their life. It’s been advantageous for us and kind of going back to what I said, in the beginning, is failure has never been an option. And so, we work probably on average a good 10 to 12 hours a day and have to be cognizant of the fact that we need to set aside our personal time, our work time and our individual time. And it’s difficult because we are so passionate about what we do. Even during sometimes a date, we’ll all of a sudden be talking about business and being excited and then we sort of laugh and just say this is who we are. And so, I think probably the best advice I can give anyone is just to know that you’re going to have those challenges and you’re going to have those good days and bad days. But kind of the beauty is if you’re somehow related, you can’t just decide that you’re going to quit your job. The commitment is much deeper than that and just like everything, you have to fight and you have to move forward and you have to be able to kind of pick yourself up by the bootstraps some days and forge ahead.
Andrew: Very, very well said. So, I think as we come to a close today, let’s talk real high-level recap and then we’ll go through how you can contact Eric and Christine at Mogel. So, I think with any business, there are growing pains. Employees are the centerpiece of success. And US business owners, me as a business owner, we can’t do it alone. So, I think the takeaway from today is to understand what type of culture that you want to build but bring in an outsider, bring in people with experience, agencies, recruitment firms, the value that they can bring. Don’t look at it as, “Oh no, this is another cost and how am I going to pay for it.” Like you guys said earlier, having the wrong employee can be much more costly, could drive a business down, drive the culture down. So, bring in the people. Bring in the people with the relationships. That allows you to focus on what you can do best and takes one thing off of your plate. And that something as your business changes, you’re going to need different people. As the industry changes, as technology changes, and you want to be partnered with the people that are on the forefront of that and that’s the true value of the relationships that you guys have built. I’m sure for over 20, 25 years you worked with some of the same people and they understand your passion and I think that can lead to tremendous success for a business to take that off the plate and make sure that they’re bringing in the right people.
And so, as we end today, is there anything, Eric and Christine, that you want to make sure that we get known before we end this podcast? And again, I appreciate the time. I know you guys are busy and I think this has been fantastic in educating the business owner, the entrepreneur of what’s out there.
Eric: Andrew, I’d like to just throw something out there. I know we’ve talked about maybe some deliverables to the community in terms of, I don’t know, white papers or salary guys but this is all throughout there for the people in your community, in your network is if you’d like, I’d be more than glad, I have a real soft spot for entrepreneurs and other business owners. I’d be more than glad in this really is for free, I’d be more than glad to talk to anybody or if they want to, given it’s not inundated, I’ll make time to sit down with somebody, just go over their recruitment process and some of the challenges in what’s in the market. I’d be more than glad to share information and give some true free type of consultation if anybody would like it in terms of how to improve their hiring practices and do it in a cost-effective manner.
Andrew: Excellent. I mean, when you look at that and the value that I’ve learned from you guys in our meetings, for you listeners out there, there’s not many no-brainers out there but this is one where you can have a, whether it be a face-to-face or a phone call, initial consultation, finding out what your pain is, what you’re looking for, what your goals are as a business and then aligning with Christine and Eric’s relationships and the knowledge that they have. So, those inside of the show notes will be a direct link on how to get a hold of Eric and Christine and you guys then can take it from there
Christine: Thank you. And if I could just add real quick, Andrew. Don’t be afraid of the recruiter. So many times, people I think are afraid of the unknown and I know we were first working with you, I would have an anxiety every time we had an appointment to meet with you because I wasn’t sure what to expect. And so, I would just say back to your point, there’s no reason not to have the conversation. It will be painless. It will be fun, and we can almost guarantee, or not almost, we will guarantee that there will be a strong ROI. So, just as we’ve seen with you in your business and working with you and we’ve also had that same experience with our other clients. So, my advice is don’t be afraid to have that initial consultation or conversation.
Andrew: That is great advice. Don’t be afraid and you guys took the leap of faith working with us. We’ve taken the leap of faith of working with you and that is something that you can’t have success without bringing those right people into the equation, and just learn and understand how the process works. So, fabulous. Well, you guys have been great. I’m really excited of building our relationship and growing with you guys and watching your company grow both the trials and tribulations that we’re going to have, and I think this was great. We’ll probably love to have you guys back on in a future episode. And until then, show notes will be below this podcast. You’ll be able to contact Mogel, learn a little bit more about what they do, and we’ll be back in subsequent episodes helping you the business owner build wealth, build your business, build the culture and find that higher purpose in life. So, thanks again for listening, everybody, and we’ll catch you all soon. Bye. [END]
Andrew: Thank you for joining me for today’s episode of Your Wealth & Beyond. To get access to all the resources mentioned during today’s podcast, please visit Bayntree.com/podcast. And be sure to tune in later this month for another episode of Your Wealth & Beyond.